Discuss & Debate | Share | Learn

[Fatimah Zahra Karim]

Hasan, Habari mpya...a request please: A new thread has been started for the hijab issue. Please move the discussion regarding hijab there. Let's leave this thread for the zanjeer, qama zani, etc...

http://www.ask.or.tz/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=2183

[abuali]

First u spread Fitna by refering to Ayatullah khamenei who not today but from long time made zanjeer impermissible for his followers then you said we in majority follow ayatullah sistani than why you referred to him isnt its Fitna . please wake up and have guts to own up the mistakes that gives opportunity to rectify.

Salaamun 'Alaykum All.
Just a quick question: Are anyone of us followers of Ayatullah S. Shirazi and Ayatullah Behjat, for my dear brother Hasan to continue to quote their names (jafariyanews)?

Similarly, It is not at all fitna to quote names of Scholars who are against something that has only been practiced for around 70 years.

Furthermore, in the following website, Ayatullah Behjat says that fatwas attributed to him and Sayyid Abul Hasan Isfahani, (such as the one at jafariyanews) are lies: http://www.fardanews.com/show/?id=44353.

Another question: Is blood pak?

Imu, I have yet to come across anyone in Dar es Salaam with a taqlid of Ayatullah S. Shirazi and Ayatullah Behjat which leads me to believe if there are any, then there may be a very small percentage

[abuali]

I am really saddened by our lack of respect for one another and the levels to which we can go to attack the other. I have been keeping quiet for sometime hoping that that we will realise this ourselves and make ammends.

Since this has not happened, and perhaps I am the most answerable for this forum (although not all responsibility for what members say lies on me), I have reluctantly decided to point out things that made me sad. To the poster, if you feel my feeling sad was haq then please rectify your post.

[hasin: edited. this topic is being discussed at http://www.ask.or.tz/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=2183]

Second read Kitab-ul Irshad for Hz Mohsin a.s.'s existence and inform your beloved Sheikh [hasin: was this neccessary?]
Third contact Ayatullah Sistani for Zanjeer if you have guts to face the truth[hasin: are you assuming all of the others are liars?], number am providing 0780100671.
whose this HusseinK why he was beaten and why sheikh was provided security?
be specific in replies.
Jazakallah Habari Mpya
Waslaam.

[abuali]

Sister Fatimah,



Yes I know that YOU live in DAR. And since you force me then let me mention this too that you live along the United Nations Road. I do not think that it will be wise for you to ask for more details as I do not know the name of the Mosque opposite where you live. Unless you want me to find it out for you.

Brother Zulfiqaar, your above post brought tears to my eyes. Tell me how you would feel should someone post the same about one of the ladies in your household?

[abuali]

I cant fathom why that would be unless you wanna threaten me too, the way you people have threatened the shaykh and his host.

Sister Fatimah, I can understand your feelings at Br. Zulfiqaars post. But i believe the above to be inappropriate as we dont have a right to blame anyone unless we are sure.

[abuali]

Br. Hasin,

Thanx for advice.
Your First Post was regarding Sheikh's issue, first i like to tell you that i myself is the witness of that meeting held on Friday Night in outer open section of Imam Bargah and nothing bad or verbal attack was on him. Secondly he even joked that who is arranging dinner then he left smiling so no need of any clearification for that.

Thank you for the clarification. I assumed you were in Asia because you said [Brother Zulfiqaar, I assumed based on Br. Hassans own comments and not my own whim]:

we in Asia face this

Secondly, I have spoken to atleast three people who were present in the meeting. And they have told me that there were definitely verbal attacks on the sheikh as well as on anyone else present who had similar opinions about the issue.

And hence I quote:

I recall that When Imam Ali was asked what is the difference between truth and falsehood? He replied, "Four fingers". i.e. The distance between one's eyes and ears. Whatever you see with your eyes is the Truth. Whatever you hear has an exellent chance of being part of Falsehood.

Because it seems we may never be able to come to any conclusions on this particular issue about that meeting on friday night which should never have taken place, I am requesting everyone to stop discussing about that meeting and keep the discussions to the issue at hand, which is:

Zanjeer, Qama Zani and if there are situations and times when they must be avoided

[abuali]

if i can tell names of five books which is in Farsi and Urdu how will you confirm,

Brother Hasan, Alhamdulilah we have all means to confirm. We have no shortage of translators and experts in all of the languages as well as in Arabic.

Do kindly provide the references which will help all the readers in coming to a logical conclusion. Please post any references with regards to Zanjeer in this thread and with regards to the hijab in the following thread.

http://www.ask.or.tz/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=2183

So brother mukhtarnama you can get easily and you can refer to it.

Is Mukhtarnama a book? If so I can try looking for it. If you have it please let us know how we I can get a copy of it.

Ayatullah Bashir Najafi who is marjae taqlid confirmed it i have witneses tell me how can i put them here LOL.

I would suggest that you try to avail a written answer or ruling from him so that those who are under his taqlid can be assured of his views.

[hasanrizvi]

refer to previous zanjeer qama forum

Allahu Akbar

Alhamdulilah, this forum in itself is a sign of what Ask is all about.

The forum started with doubts and questions, and by the grace of Allah has ended with conviction that Zanjeer is definitely valid.

I was waiting for the forum to reach this stage before i post the following compilation of Fatwas by various marja's in relation to zanjeer.

This compilation has been done by Sayyid Murtaza Rizvi.

Click here to view the compilation document with all the fatwas/rules of various Mujtahids with regards to Zanjeer

Inshallah by now all doubts have been cleared, and the misinterpretations of the fatwas have been clarified.

May Allah accept all our azadari in whichever form it may be in.

My deepest gratitude to all the members who took the time to research and post information for this purpose. Allah(SWT) repays in manifold.
||=|| //-\\ §

i think matter was concluded before and i hope this doesnt rise next year again

[abuali]

Brother Hasan

Please refer to my post below as to why this topic is different from the one you quoted

Brother Qarrar,

This particular thread was started due to a khutba delivered in Dar es Salaam which unfortunately led to an unpleasant saga that should never have occurred.

We all agree on permissibility of forms of azaadari unless permanent harm or danger is there as concluded in the earlier post, however, this particular discussion is with regards to the reply of Aga Sistani (may Allah grant him a long healthy life) to a brother in Pakistan following the ruling by Aga Khamenei (may Allah grant him a long healthy life)

As you may be aware, apart from the halaal of Muhammad and the haraam of Muhammad, there are things on which rulings can change based on development of circumstances.

Also quoting Ayatullah al Udhama Sheikh Muhammad Husain Naeni (R.A.) who was also quoted in the post in the other topic you linked to:

Secondly, there is no objection to beating cheeks and chest till they show redness or blackness. It is also permitted to hit one's back with chains to that extent, or, even if a little blood comes out. As to hitting one's front part of the head with the sword, it is allowed if it does not entail extra ordinary danger. It should be confined bleeding, without harming the skull bones, nor causing excessive bleeding, the same way as experienced and trained people do. However, if one does it carefully, yet in a dvertently harms himself by excessive bleeding, that would be a forbidden act, like one who did Wudhu, Ghusl or kept a fast believing that it was safe for him and then it turned out to be harmful. However, it is better, in fact Ahwat that only experienced and trained people engage in such acts. The youths who in their intense grief, love and emotions for Imam Husain (a.s.) exceed the limit and as a result carelessly harm themselves, should refrain from such acts. May Allah keep them steadfast on the right path, in this world and here after.

(refer to http://www.ask.or.tz/articles/rulings_on_zanjeer.html)

does not refer to a situation where such acts may be weapons for creating anti-shia and anti-muslim hate. You will refer that he advises caution by reading the bold part, but only referring to the bodily harm that can result in intensity of love, grief and emotions.

So yes, this is an old topic, but with new information. I feel its very important, especially for those who reside in Dar es Salaam, to reason this issue out in forums such as this, because actions without thought may lead to dire consequences, both here and hereafter. (but thats my thought..feel free to think differently :))

[Muslim Soldier]

Good discussion. I too feel it should go on.

[hasanrizvi]

Alhamdolilah I read the link you provided and read the answers by Mulla Asghar as well and i do agree with you and all if there is any fear of loss of life or limb or irreverseible injuries according to Ayatullah sistani(that too Mulla asghar was asked fatwa)and even for current situation one can add defaming islam. So in dar since we do closed doors only this time was performed in open area and that too without any TV reporters etc. i think or we think there is no such question arises of defaming regarding harm our jamaat had already taken care for surgical blades etc.
In short we in dar can perform as per me, incase of difference i think it should be on points keeping in mind we are discussing for Dar.

[Muhammad Mahdi]

Thank you for coming to the conclusion that zajeer is prohibited under those two conditions.

So in dar since we do closed doors only this time was performed in open area and that too without any TV reporters etc. i think or we think there is no such question arises of defaming regarding harm our jamaat had already taken care for surgical blades etc.

WRONG! When the youths go to their friends, they are questioned to see if they perform these acts. Our youths foolishly show their scars. So media or not, the negative image is still there even in Dar es Salaam.

By the way, you had posted previously some questions that I was not able to see. Please do post them again.

[band-e-ali]

where is khandaq originated from? which is perfomed in dar es salaam

khanum s

[abuali]

Kitab Maqtal al Husayn is now online on Ask in pdf

http://www.ask.or.tz/articles/Kitab_Maq ... Husayn.pdf

Kitab Maqtal al Husayn has been translated from the work of Abu Mikhnaf (d. 157 A.H.), who is generally accepted as the first historian to systematically collect the reports dealing with the event of karbala

This work has been translated by Hamid Movani of Montreal

[abuali]

Dear All,

Alhamdolilah we got the fatwa of Ayatullah Sistani and many other Ulema's on the Issue of Qama and inshallah within two three days i will post it on this forum as the person bringing it is in syria,

any luck with the above br. Hasan?

secondly it was said Biddat and haraam for shedding of blood now alhamdolilah miracle has happend here in dar am sending the image to brother hasin and reuest him to post the image where khake shifa oozed out blood on shabe aashoor and if anyone wants to see live can contact. I have confirmed the place and person it is with.

How does this miracle (miracle is a very general term, our breathing is itself a miracle) have any bearing on the current discussion?