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[Esm'ail]

Asalamalaykum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh.
Can you give ten logical, scientific, concrete and reasonable proofs that the Holy Qur'an is from ALLAH(swt).

[Muhammad Mahdi]

Yes.

[Esm'ail]

Asalamalaykum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh.
Ok mention them, basi Brother Mahdi. :)

[Syed Kazim]

[Fatimah Zahra Karim]

Wa alaykum salaam

Can you give me 1

logical, scientific, concrete and reasonable proof

that it is not?

Check out http://quraaniclessons.com/Authenticity ... _Quran.asp.

Here are your reasons...all 10 of them.

1. The Prophet (saw) was untaught by humans. Yet he produced a book of literature. How did this happen? Allah (swt) taught him and gave him the Qur'an.

2. Qur'an is poetry and Prophet Muhammad (saw) was not a poet. In fact, he could not even recite poetry that someone else wrote. Where did he get tthe Qur'an from? Allah (swt)!

3. The Qur'an states "The tongue of him whom they reproach is barbarous, and this is clear Arabic tongue." (16:103) The Prophet did not write the Qur'an. Who did? Allah (swt)!

4. Prophet Muhammad (saw) was known as as-Sadiq (the truthful one) by the people of Makka. He claims it came from Allah (swt), so we believe him.

5. The Qur'an is unparallelled. It challenges the disbelievers to produce something like the Qur'an. Nobody has met the challenge to date. If no human can write something like it, a Super-human being wrote it. Allah (swt)!

6. The Qur'an has remained unchanged from the first day Prophet Muhammad (saw) recited it. This proves that it is a miracle, and miracles are from Allah (swt).

7. The Qur'an contains scientific information that has only been recently discovered. Who wrote it in the Qur'an? The creator, Allah (swt).

8. The Qur'an stated historical facts (some that opposed the accepted ideas at that time) that anthropologists have just discovered from ancient documents. For example: the Bible mentions Haman during the time of Esther (maybe he also existed), while the Qur'an says a man called Haman (a minister[?] to Firawn) existed in Egypt at the time of Prophet Musa . Documents recently discovered show tthat a man called Haman actually did exist at that time. This fact disproves the claim that the Prophet (saw) copied the Qur'an from other scriptures.

9. The Qur'an, a book from 1400 years ago, is still not out-dated. It remains a book of guidance for Muslims and literature for Muslims and non-muslims alike. This proves that it is a miracle frrfom Allah (swt).

10. The Qur'an itself gives you a way to disprove that it is from Allah (swt). It says "Do they not consider the Quran? Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much discrepancies." (Sura 4:82). The fact that there are no contadictions proves that it is from Allah (swt).

And I know what you're going to do now. You'll bring me a list of so-called contradictions in the Qur'an (from a site like answering-islam), which have reasonable explanation if only you use your head while reading the verses being quoted. They're not conradictory, but complementary. Go on, then...

[Esm'ail]

Asalamalaykum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh.
Fatimahzahra Karim wrote:
If no human can write something like it, a Super-human being wrote it. Allah (swt)!
Do you mean that ALLAH(swt) is a human being but with super powers?
Are you supporting christianity?

Fatimahzahra Karim wrote:
The Qur'an contains scientific information that has only been recently discovered.
My sister, let me tell you something, science is a really dangerous fact to depend on. Because, science is always advancing and by advancing it also changes. Changing is the worst part. Right now, maybe somestuff which have been recently discovered, maybe supports the Holy Qur'an. But you should ask ur self,"Science is developing, aren't things gonna change in the future, which might go against the Holy Qur'an?

The Qur'an stated historical facts (some that opposed the accepted ideas at that time) that anthropologists have just discovered from ancient documents. For example: the Bible mentions Haman during the time of Esther (maybe he also existed), while the Qur'an says a man called Haman (a minister[?] to Firawn) existed in Egypt at the time of Prophet Musa . Documents recently discovered show tthat a man called Haman actually did exist at that time. This fact disproves the claim that the Prophet (saw) copied the Qur'an from other scriptures.
Please can you prove this, by sending the website with that information?
If I'm not disturbing you that is.

But otherwise my sister, the remaining reasons I'm satisfied with. Thanx :)

But one question,
Is the bible corrupted? or is it just written by people who weren't really guided by the Holy Spirit? or did the people write those stuff by just listening to other people who also heard it from other people?

[Muhammad Mahdi]

Code: Select all

http://rs64.rapidshare.com/files/18175510/The_Quran_and_modern_science.rar

BY Zakir Naik

[Fatimah Zahra Karim]

By saying a Super-human being I meant One who has abilities which are above normal human abilities.

Science has been changing since the beginning of time. What I am saying is that Qur'an has not said anything that has been contradicted by science. (except for the evolution theory, which is a theory not based on facts and not accepted by many scientists). In fact, the Qur'an has contributed to science in fields like embryology, medicine, astronomy and cosmology (I can't give you the whole list here). Check out Dr. Naik's speech given above.

An argument made in support of Haman's historicity is Maurice Bucaille's claim that the name "Haman" occurs in some ancient Egyptian inscriptions, notably one at the Hofmuseum in Vienna (now the Naturhistorisches Museum Wien) (Aegyptische Inschriften, I34, p. 130), and is listed in Ranke's dictionary of Egyptian personal names as Vorsteher der Steinbrucharbeiter, "head of the stone quarry workers."

(From wikipedia).

The Bible has been corrupted. The Injeel was not a book written by many people. It was a book revealed by Allah (swt) to Prophet Issa through the Holy Spirit (Jibrail). Around 300 AD, a King who claimed to have converted to Christianity commissioned the compilation of the bible. At this time, gospels were edited to portray Jesus as God/ son of God. The original manuscripts were destroyed. Proof: there are no original manuscripts of the gospels existing today. The oldest manuscripts are in greek, while the Jesus and his disciples were Hebrew. The existing manuscripts are said to be the 5th (or so) edition. The Holy spirit mentioned in the bible is "paraclete" in greek. Translated it means Ahmed, one of the names of the prophet (saw), simailar in meaning to Muhammad. The Comforter whose coming Jesus was predicting was not the Holy Spirit but the Prophet Muhammad (saw).

[Esm'ail]

Asalamalaykum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh.
Thank u brother Mahdi and sister Karim. :)
Since I said that," A useful post is the post which is of full use in attaining new knowledge which can help you in attaining closeness to ALLAH(swt)."
Then I think its better to put it into action.

Fatimahzahra Karim wrote:
Around 300 AD, a King who claimed to have converted to Christianity commissioned the compilation of the bible.

Actually, it was at exactly 325AD whereby the Council of Nicaea was formed and lead by the Emperor Constantine(who was a Roman Pagan and converted to Christianity), but till today I'm asking myself, "Did he convert so that he can dominate christianity which at that time was the fastest growing true religion and corrupt it with his own ideas? or Did he convert because he really wanted to accept christianity pure heartedly?
But anyways, that is not the main issue. Although even Christianity does agree with the above point. And the set of rules and Principles of Christianity is also known as THE NICENE CREED.
The word Nicene is from The Council of Nicaea.
U can check these websites out if u want to know more about the Council of Nicaea(interesting and mysterious)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Council_of_Nicaea(There were two Councils of Nicaea, each held at different times, by different people).
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11044a.htm

Fatimahzahra Karim wrote:
At this time, gospels were edited to portray Jesus as God/ son of God.
Please, my sister can you give me more evidence on this, if I'm not disturbing you that is. :)

But the main issue of this post, was to ask some stuff which I don't understand in the Glorious Qur'an.
Is a human-being created from dust? or Is a human-being created from clot?
Is a human-being created from clay? or Is a human-being created from water?

All these components are mentioned in the Glorious Qur'an as a source of human creation. Please can you try making me understand, what ALLAH(swt) was trying to say in all these verses.

Cuz if its from dust then it is not from clot, not clay, not water.
If its from clot then it is not from dust, not clay, not water.
If its from clay then it is not form clot, not dust, not water.
If its from water then it is not from clay, not clot, not dust.

Please help me on this my brothers and sisters. :)

[Fatimah Zahra Karim]

Wa alaykum salaam

I just knew you were going to bring in these so called contradictions. Tell me, is bread made from wheat, or flour, or water, or dough? Is it not all 4? THe flour is made from wheat. The flour and water are mixed to make dough, from which the bread is made, is it not? Now where does Allah (swt) say that the human is made of dust only, or clay only, or water only?

All living things are composed of 60-95% water, a human being is about 70% water. There's the water part proved.

Dust/clay: The Arabic word, which has been translated 'dust', is (turaab) meaning dust, soil, dirt, earth. The Arabic word, which has been translated 'clay' is (salsaal) meaning dry clay. These ase not contradictory. Is clay not a type of soil? And isn't dry clay dusty? All the elements used to make the human are present in earth/soil. No contradiction.

As for the clot: The Arabic word used is (alaq) meaning clot, leech, a clinging object. The embryo, when still undifferentiated, is just a clump of cells (ie clot). It attaches itself to its mother (clings from her) and derives nutrition from her (like a leech). Again, no contradiction.

[Fatimah Zahra Karim]

Since you've read about the Nicene Creed, you must have also read that only 18% of all the bishops were present the council. (Who gave anybody the right to vote about God's nature anyways?)Those who did not agree with Constantine were exiled. All writings which opposed the creed were destroyed, ensuring that only that remained which the emperor wanted to remain. Those teaching unitarian Christianity were threatened with death and forced not to preach the truth.

check out http://www.angelfire.com/pa/greywlf/trinity.html
and http://www.watchtower.org/e/ti/article_04.htm

Whether Constantine really coverted:

Regarding him, Henry Chadwick says in The Early Church: "Constantine, like his father, worshipped the Unconquered Sun; . . . his conversion should not be interpreted as an inward experience of grace . . . It was a military matter. His comprehension of Christian doctrine was never very clear, but he was sure that victory in battle lay in the gift of the God of the Christians."

God knows best.

[Esm'ail]

Asalamalaykum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh.
I'm really satisfied with ur answer sister Karim. Thanx
Ur a really smart girl. MashaALLAH. :)
But another thing which is confusing my sister,
In surah 19:67, it states, "But does not man call to mind that We created him before out of nothing."
What does ALLAH(swt) mean when he said this?

"Surely you and what you worship besides Allah
are the firewood of hell; to it you shall come."
Surah 21:98
Does it mean Prophet Issa ibn Maryam(pbut) will be among them who burn in hell?
(astaghfirullah rabbi wa atubullaih)
ALLAH FORBID!
I asked this because, The Christians do worship Prophet Jesus and some pray through Jesus to GOD.

Please help me on this my brothers and sisters. :)

And about constantine, thank you sister Karim for the information u provided to me, I will check it out. :)
And about teaching Unitarian, I thought unitarian was a sect which started recently when they discovered the Gospel of Barnabas. :?
Thats what my encyclopaedia says. :)
I never knew unitarianism was present at the time of Constantine.
It seems, I'm gaining something from this after all.

[Fatimah Zahra Karim]

Wa alaykum salaam

Thanks for the compliment but I'm sure there are smarter people...

What existed before the Big Bang? Nothing. That is what Allah (swt) probably means. There was nothing...then BOOM! And all the matter in universe (from which a human is made) is created.

It is mustahab (recommended) to pray through Jesus. There's nothing wrong with it. Praying to Jesus believing he is an agent of Allah (swt) and will grant you only what Allah (swt) allows him to grant you is also not wrong, but that is a whole new discussion. Woshipping Jesus is wrong. But do Christians worship Jesus as he is (the real Jesus) or do they worship the idea of trinity and the Jesus they think they know? Jesus never asked anyone to worship him. He is free from blame.

check out 5:116-117

"And when Allah will say (on Judgment Day):

'O Jesus, son of Maryam! Did you say to unto the people: 'worship me and my mother as two gods beside Allah?' He will say:

'Glory be to You! It was not for me to say what I had no right (to say). Had I said it, You would surely have known it. You know what is in my inner-self, though I do not know what is in Yours, truly, You are the All-Knower of all that is hidden and unseen. Never did I say to them aught except what You did command me to say: 'Worship Allah, my Lord and Your Lord.' And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them, but when You took me up, You were the Watcher over them, and You are a Witness to all things.' "

Conclusion: Jesus is a righteous Prphet of Allah (swt) and he shall not burn in hell. It is the Ideology of trinity and those who formulated it that shall burn.


About Unitarian Christianity, I did not mean the sect. I meant the word literally- a monotheist. All muslims are unitarian because they believe in 1 God. Christians who are anti-trinitarian are labelled unitarian.

[Esm'ail]

Asalamalaykum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh.
Thanx sister Karim. :)
But, the fact still remains that human was created out of clay and the clay was the one which was created out of nothing.
But I still get your point. :)

Is satan a jinn or an angel?
I came across this ahadith:
According to al-Qasim b. al-Hasan- al-Husayn b. Dawud- Hajjaj- Ibn Jurayj- Ibn `Abbas: Iblis was one of the most noblest angels and belonged to the most honored tribe among them. He was a keeper of Paradise. He had authority to rule over the lower heaven as well as earth.

And another ahadith:
According to al-Qasim- al-Husayn- Hajjaj- Ibn Jurayj- Salih, the mawla of al-Taw'amah and Sharik b. Abir Namir, either one or both of them- Ibn `Abbas: There was an angelic tribe of jinn, and Iblis belonged to it. He governed all in between the heaven and the earth.

Please help me on this again. :)
I'm kinda confused. :?

[Fatimah Zahra Karim]

Wa alaykum salaam
I just wanted to give other people the opportunity to answer this one but since it seems nobodys willing, here goes...

But, the fact still remains that human was created out of clay and the clay was the one which was created out of nothing.

Yep. And the fact also remains that bread is made from flour with is made from wheat. So one can still say that wheat is one of the ingredients of bread.

Is satan a jinn or an angel?

He is a jinn. It is mentioned clearly in the Qur'an 18:50

And (remember) when We said unto the angels: Fall prostrate before ADAM, and they fell prostrate, all save Ibis. He was of the Jinn, so he rebelled against his Lord's command. Will ye choose him and his seed for your protecting friends instead of Me, when they are an enemy unto you? Calamitous is the exchange for evil doers!

. I think it is the beginning part of the verse that confused you, where it says the angels were told to prostrate and Iblis refused. It's a long story. To cut it short, Iblis (satan's name) was a 'good' jinn. He used to live in the heavens with the angels. He was their leader and he used to teach them also. I think I have heard it said that even Jibrail used to respect him. He was counted as one of the company. To illustrate: imagine you're a teacher and you walk into a class of girls and boys, where the majority is the boys. You assign them some work and say 'Guys, I want this done by tomorrow morning'. Does that mean you assigned the work to the boys only? In a similar way, Satan, living among angels was counted as one of them even if he wasn't. So when a command was issued it was for all; he understood that and refused to prostrate out of pride.

I don't really know about the ahadith. Could you give me reference where I can find them in Arabic? Coz I think they're mistranslated, but I'm not sure.

Now I have a question for you: Are you really confused and seeking answers? Or are you trying to test people here? Or are you trying to confuse people here? Or are you just trying to keep the topic rolling? :) I hope you don't mind me asking...just curious.