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[Muhammad]

In His name The Most High
We were talking to Sheikh Ali Kermalli and he told us that he witnessed that during the preparations he saw the male and female volunteers chatting about so casually and randomly.

[abuali]

male and female volunteers chatting about so casually and randomly.

How did they get permission for male and female volunteers to work together?

Did Jamaat allow it? Did Tabligh allow it? Did scouts allow it?

[Muhammad]

This is something I cant answer as honestly, I don't know. Probably if we can get hold of a scout, he can clarify if he does not deny that this ever happened...

[Insaan]

A/S,

As i was reading through the post - replies, i learnt lots of things and i feel i should share some of my knowledge with regards to Safir e Hussein project ( I feel i wont do justice, if i do not show/explain the actual scenario)

1) In one of the replies - it was said that boys are going to Kerbala and Girls are not going to kerbala ( If i recall well) - Please find my replies / understanding of this matter ( The way i heard and saw):-

a) Initially the plan was to go to Iran.
b) For some reasons, the plan did not materialise, hence the second plan was for Sur ( Syria)
c) Another plan came up, that we should consider to take the volunteers to Iraq ( Although the idea was taken with two hands, but financial it was not feasible and the availability of funds was so difficult)
d) Hence, the Plan (B) become feasible ( To take the Volunteers to Syria)
e) To what i know and understand - Around four volunteers, had planned to go Iraq ( individually and not under the banner of scouts ).

(Therefore, its not true that few volunteers ( Boys) were considered and few were not considered ( Girls) for Iraq.

2) Question on Azadari - I read in one of the post that people were cring and kissing E.T.C

a) I request that we should not talk about the concept of Azadari ( as its so vast and delicate).
b) For few - Safir e Hussein was a place of Ziyarat and people were praying as if they are in Kerbala. ( Let us not critise the way the worship to Allah)
c) I feel that the way it was presented about the Red water taken from Kerbala is not true and correct; Please find the brief explanation of it below:-
- Almost everyone knows that the water is not for drinking ( And few are told also - I have heard myself)
- The water which you see people taking for "shifa" - it depends on niyyat my brother/sister, we have personal seen that miracle are happening . ( Therefore i request you not to post anything that we have no knowledge of - or critise anything. - I do not have knowledge too, but i have few facts on it)

Let us not criticise the concept of Azadari, as its a very delicate issue ( To make safir, Kerbala Project - is part of Azadari).

3)Concept of naration

a) Again, it falls under azadari ( I am very afraid to comment on this - but i ask Allah (swt) to grant me wisdom) - It happened that i got a chance to explain my fellow BROTHERS on kerbala, what ever, i said is what i had heard from Majlis.
b) I dont know which areas, did our yound brothers forget to mention - but I understand that thr are many narrations on the event of kerbala ( We all agree that the event had taken place).
c) Let us not dig few things that are not appropriate.

4) SAFIR - for out siders.

a) Safir was open for outsiders - i can testify that. ( hence, we should not post anything which is not true).
b) The location for safir was an obstacle -i.e. - compared to last year, many people did not show up because of the location, avaibility of lift, and a times over crowd in specific hours.

5) CONDUCT.

a) In one of the posting, someone said that, the volunteers were joking - My brother/sister, thats on individual capacity, i do not think any one would encourage to do that in Muharram. Let me give you the example:-
1) In a religious class room - we have seen the KIDS/STUDENTS, misbehaiving - are we blaming the teacher or the school? ofcourse we are blaming the kid himself - the situation is very similar, why blame safir and not individual??? --- may be they are not taught akhlaq at thr homes. MAY-- i stand to be corrected. Dont we see people misbehaving at religious places ( such as imambargha)?


2) Again, If something has happened ( meeting), then why should we channel it to safir? please find the points below:-
a) What was the percentage of boys/girls caught at safir doing in appropriate things - I have the answer got the answer - negligible . ( out of 120 volunteers)
b) We have seen in many school - boys and girls are having relationship ( why dont we blame the school???? - but we blame the kids) same for safir.
c) Few kids were coming to safir - but they never used to come to the place were they had got the permission for - they used to end up at the terrace/ or may be 1st, 2nd floor.... how do we expect the leaders will know what is happening at the 1st floor?
d) We have heard alot of rumour - but we dont have anyone to say that yes i have seen the act.

Let us not Target the volunteers who gave thr time for safir - they were working day and night. Let us not held them responsible for the things they are not aware of.... instead we should teach our kids to behave well.

6) COST OF SAFIR
The cost of safir was self financed by few individiuals- For azadari they gave out thr time, money and resources. Let us pray to allah to increase thr rizq.
Hence, we are no one to judge; whether it was expensive or not for imam hussein......
a) Has anyone come and asked the cost of Niyaaz?? ( people eat, do asraf and go). But no one asks the cost of asraf that we do. Why do we raise question for the tribute of imam hussein - while it was a self financed project?
b) I feel ( stand to be corrected), if thr was a change in anyone of us ( after visiting safir/kerbala) then the amount spent is worth. Same example:- how many muslims are thr? how many muslim were thr in kerbala?

Ahsant.

[Insaan]

A/s
As to all the replies the conclusion should be that better do enough research before you talk about anything that we are not sure about also one thing that was not clarified was that there were strict timings for ladies to come in Safeer that was the time the african workers had already gone also to refer to the designing was mostly done by the guys
Ahsnt
JUST A CLARIFICATION TO PEOPLE WHO DO NOT MIND THEIR OWN BUSINESS

ANON

[abuali]

also one thing that was not clarified was that there were strict timings for ladies to come in Safeer that was the time the african workers had already gone also to refer to the designing was mostly done by the guys

brother/sister

I am a bit confused. You are saying with utmost certainty in the above post that there were no men working when ladies were at Safir, from the time Safir was being prepared till the time it was closed.

However, another brother says:

Mainly, when the work was being done I had gone for a visit and what I saw was completely unacceptable. African men were working with their chest exposed and our khoja girls would roam around as if it didn't matter to them. Worst of all, the scout leaders in charge also didn't bother about it. This is something that it needs to be discussed with them after that they've completed their project because it might create a misunderstanding due to their stress.

Brother/Sister: Are you sure you can testify that the above did not happen? If so, on what basis? Were you at Safir the whole time from the beginning till the end?

[Insaan]

My brothers and Sisters.

I fail to understand the following:-

1) My brother (Muntazir); I am glad that you brought this issue - Our sisters working and the fundis working open chest; But i fail to understand, if you saw that incident, why didnt you report at the first place ( amra bil maruf)!!!.... if at all you wanted to solve that issue and stop being practising.......But bringing this issue at latter stage ( when the project is over) does not bring a good picture.

2) I am glad Shekh Kermali said that he saw boys and girls talking normally - but did shekh say that what the boys and girls were talking?

[abuali]

But i fail to understand, if you saw that incident, why didnt you report at the first place ( amra bil maruf)!!!.... if at all you wanted to solve that issue and stop being practising

Br. Muntazir can answer your question above.

However, your comment:

But bringing this issue at latter stage ( when the project is over) does not bring a good picture.

The issue happening in the first place does not bring a good picture.

Raising the issue (i.e. how 'the hijab was made fun of in the process of an act of Azaadari (safir) to commemorate a Holy Imam and a Holy Lady who was ready to die for hijab') to discuss with a view to ensuring that this does not happen again, is very beneficial. It is the only way we will learn from our mistakes and progress

[abuali]

(V)$ could you respond to

2) I am glad Shekh Kermali said that he saw boys and girls talking normally - but did shekh say that what the boys and girls were talking?

if you have the details

[qamar]

Insaan, some volunteers were caught making out n kissing

[Brother in Islam]

The biggest problem was that the jamaat when doing this project gave responsibility to the wrong people. Unqualified people doing something Islamic can spoil it as they would not keep shariah as their priority....hence all this issues...what was halaal and something extremely recommended turned into something sinful and disgraced in the eyes of Allah as that place was used to commit sins instead of doing good

[Muhammad]

In His Name The Most High
My dear Brother/ Sister in faith,
No number is negligible, when you mentioned that there were 120 volunteers and the number that did wrong are negligible, that is a wrong concept on its own. You pray Namaaze Shab for 100 nights, and one of those nights you miss Subh Prayers, is that negligible?
You mentioned in 1 point that azadari should not be discussed as it is a very sensitive issue (sorry i cant extract your exact words as i do not know how to quote you! Hasin if you could help me in that) Does this mean that everything that deals with our emotions and cultured should be ignored and kept silent about?
Another point of the leaders not knowing what happens in the 1st floor, so how can you be responsible enough to take the whole team to Ziaraat if you cant maintain them in 1 building?
The other person using this account said in bold that people should mind their own business, but my dear brother/sister this IS our business, it is paining us, and that is why this question is raised.
Sheikh Kermali just mentioned that they were chatting and laughing and did not mention what they were laughing about.
See, we have to learn how to accept positive criticism. The job was amazing, we cant take away any credit from anyone, and hats off to the people who gave in their finance and more importantly time to this project. But there are obviously some lapses that have been raised by more than a couple of people and hence i would advice you to take this things into considerations rather than lashing out to the people who are intellectually discussing various problems that happen in the community.
1 secret before i end, when you want to post a reply and whenever your emotions override your intellect, take a piece of paper, write everything down, whatever your emotions want to, and then press you can think over nicely and post a reply using a balance of these 2 powers and blessings of Allah(SWT)
If i am mistaken May Allah (SWT) forgive me, for there is no mistake in the message that i want to give you, but a mistake in the way that i might have written it.
Muhammad (Shabbir) Mohamedhussein
(And please try not to use anonymous account, as it is said answer the person according to the person. You might be a scholar of religion and I, a humble, sinful servant might be giving you Grade 1 lessons)

[Moonbeam]

5) CONDUCT.

a) In one of the posting, someone said that, the volunteers were joking - My brother/sister, thats on individual capacity, i do not think any one would encourage to do that in Muharram. Let me give you the example:-
1) In a religious class room - we have seen the KIDS/STUDENTS, misbehaiving - are we blaming the teacher or the school? ofcourse we are blaming the kid himself - the situation is very similar, why blame safir and not individual??? --- may be they are not taught akhlaq at thr homes. MAY-- i stand to be corrected. Dont we see people misbehaving at religious places ( such as imambargha)?

For an organisation (of any sort) to be successful it needs to ensure that the members of the organisation understand the aims of the organisation and act accordingly in order to achieve those aims. Leadership skills are very essential as well. I believe the aim of Safir-e-Husayn (a.s) was to depict the "tragedy" of Karbala, and thus the conduct for depicting the same was very important. Anything less would not have achieved its purpose (do correct me if i am wrong). Therefore the individual attitudes of the volunteers and how to conduct themselves should have been stressed by the organisers before taking on the project. Blaming the individuals upbringing will not sort the problem. The selection process for the volunteers should have been strict, so that only the serious minded people are chosen, who would not take their role in the project lightly. Like i said the project had potential to move a person to tears and maybe even more, but it didn't work for me.

If the students of a teachers classroom are misbehaving, i would expect the teacher to be able to better control the classroom rather then allow the students to disrupt the class. And if the student continues to misbehave, the teacher has every right to remove the student from the class in order to maintain discipline.

I would suggest that the comments, compliments and criticism are taken constructively and not be defensive on this matter. We are all members of this community showing concern for our youth and its activities.

[abuali]

b) We have seen in many school - boys and girls are having relationship ( why dont we blame the school???? - but we blame the kids) same for safir.

I would think the school or institution would be party in the blame.

Dear brother/sister, when sending their sons or daughters, parents are trusting the institution (scouts, safir, IU etc) with their children knowing that their children will be taken care of in an Islamic environment.

Not being able to do so is a breach of trust.

Parents should then be made aware that if they do send their children to volunteer, the organization is not willing to take any responsibility for what they do while volunteering.

Would you want to send your children under such circumstances?